Haynes Johnson at BFSU
Haynes Johnson, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who has over 40 years of experience in reporting, came to BFSU on May 23rd to give a lecture on the U.S. political divide as well as to give advice to WOW and other school media. Beryl Hou and Lianne Li from WOW interviewed him on the 24th.
About your visit to China? We know you come with the support of the foundation. What is your plan and purpose? How long are you going to be here?
Four years ago, I was fascinated by what is happening in China. It is of obvious interest to me as an American, a human being, a world citizen and someone who cares about world politics and the future stability of the world. All of that is tied up in China as well as the United States. So I always think of going somewhere when I want to be better informed. Maybe I will write something about it to share some new information with other people. That's why I am here. I don't expect to find great new truths, just impressions. I learn from students, government officials and Party members. The questions I get from people help me understand what is going on. This is not something that you can learn from thousands of miles away. I am leaving for Shanghai on Thursday and will be there until the following Thursday. Then I will go to Kunming, and later Hanoi in Vietnam. I won't be back until the middle of June.
Although you have not been here for a long time, we would like to hear your view on China's media and journalism.
Well, that is part of what I am trying to learn about-- how journalism is changing in China. There is still a central authority that works more control over what is published than they do in the United States. And I am trying to find out how it is changing. I get the impression from people telling me that there is more of this or less of that. But there are still lines of authority that you can't bridge, that you have to be careful about.
You have mentioned during your visit here that to be a journalist is to be a camera and to catch pictures for your audience. But we are all human beings. We are subjective and sometimes cannot be that objective and balanced. I wonder how you balance your emotion with your job, especially in case there is some involvement with your relatives or personal views.
Well, you know, there is no such thing as a perfectly objective person. We all have different views. We are all shaped by different events and come from different backgrounds. We are influenced by things we don't even know about. So you have to know that about yourself. You have to recognize that you do not have the whole truth of what you are writing about. In this case, you are not going to pretend that what you are telling the whole truth, but what you are telling is worthy. You have to recognize your limitations and then still try to say something important. That's all.
I guess you have met with a lot of difficulties in your career as a journalist. What is the most difficult thing you have encountered?
I think the most difficult thing, always, is when you are in an emotional situation when you are seeing things happening in front of your eyes, and then you just have to go back a moment and think "what is it that I have just seen?" And that is a tough decision. What I may think is not what you may think. And you just stand back and test yourself and ask: "What do I want to say about what has just happened?" And that is not an easy question because we all might see it differently. Then you have to come back and say: "This is the most important thing I want to tell you about something that has just happened." And that is the turn again and again--figure out what is it that I want to tell you as a journalist about an event that has just occurred that has significance and meaning. And then, the next part is "how do I tell it and how do I express it in a way that is helpful" so that you can really understand something about an event that might have some meaning to you, because that's what the job is. You want to do that. So that's a continually difficult situation.
Investigative journalism has a long history in America. Now that investigative journalism is developing in China, we would like to know how you establish your network of sources and judge the credibility of confidential sources?
That is a tough question. You have got to develop sources--people who believe there are things you should know that you can tell others in order to make changes. That's what investigation is. You often report about something that is wrong. There are people who might lose their jobs if they are identified. So you have to protect them and also be sure what they are telling you is factually true. It's really good if you can get some documents that will prove your case. And don't rely on a single person or one set of documents. You have to work a long time and get credibility. It is all very complicated, but you have to do it.
We know you and your father are the first father and son who have won the Pulitzer Prize. What is your response to winning it?
Well, of course I was proud about my father. The nice thing about it was when I won the Pulitzer Prize, it was the first time that it was given out in person. So I wore a big black tie that is very formal. There was a big dinner inviting all the Pulitzer winners, including my father, at a hotel in New York. The editor told me that I had won two days before. I was supposed to pledge secrecy. And I called my father up and said: "I will see you at the Pulitzer Prize dinner." He said: "I can't get you a ticket." I said: "No, I will see you there." "What do you mean? I can't get you a ticket.!" I said again: "I will see you there!" So he got very angry and said: "I can't do it!" So I said: "I will be there. I won!" "What do you mean, you won?" The great thing was when they introduced me and I went forward to get the prize, he stood up and cried. So that is what is nice about winning the award.
You never thought "I have to compete with my father," have you?
Oh, I guess I did. But the nice thing was that he was alive at that time. He was there to see my mother too. And that is just a moment I will never forget. I've got tears in my eyes now when I tell that story.
About your visit to China? We know you come with the support of the foundation. What is your plan and purpose? How long are you going to be here?
Four years ago, I was fascinated by what is happening in China. It is of obvious interest to me as an American, a human being, a world citizen and someone who cares about world politics and the future stability of the world. All of that is tied up in China as well as the United States. So I always think of going somewhere when I want to be better informed. Maybe I will write something about it to share some new information with other people. That's why I am here. I don't expect to find great new truths, just impressions. I learn from students, government officials and Party members. The questions I get from people help me understand what is going on. This is not something that you can learn from thousands of miles away. I am leaving for Shanghai on Thursday and will be there until the following Thursday. Then I will go to Kunming, and later Hanoi in Vietnam. I won't be back until the middle of June.
Although you have not been here for a long time, we would like to hear your view on China's media and journalism.
Well, that is part of what I am trying to learn about-- how journalism is changing in China. There is still a central authority that works more control over what is published than they do in the United States. And I am trying to find out how it is changing. I get the impression from people telling me that there is more of this or less of that. But there are still lines of authority that you can't bridge, that you have to be careful about.
You have mentioned during your visit here that to be a journalist is to be a camera and to catch pictures for your audience. But we are all human beings. We are subjective and sometimes cannot be that objective and balanced. I wonder how you balance your emotion with your job, especially in case there is some involvement with your relatives or personal views.
Well, you know, there is no such thing as a perfectly objective person. We all have different views. We are all shaped by different events and come from different backgrounds. We are influenced by things we don't even know about. So you have to know that about yourself. You have to recognize that you do not have the whole truth of what you are writing about. In this case, you are not going to pretend that what you are telling the whole truth, but what you are telling is worthy. You have to recognize your limitations and then still try to say something important. That's all.I guess you have met with a lot of difficulties in your career as a journalist. What is the most difficult thing you have encountered?
I think the most difficult thing, always, is when you are in an emotional situation when you are seeing things happening in front of your eyes, and then you just have to go back a moment and think "what is it that I have just seen?" And that is a tough decision. What I may think is not what you may think. And you just stand back and test yourself and ask: "What do I want to say about what has just happened?" And that is not an easy question because we all might see it differently. Then you have to come back and say: "This is the most important thing I want to tell you about something that has just happened." And that is the turn again and again--figure out what is it that I want to tell you as a journalist about an event that has just occurred that has significance and meaning. And then, the next part is "how do I tell it and how do I express it in a way that is helpful" so that you can really understand something about an event that might have some meaning to you, because that's what the job is. You want to do that. So that's a continually difficult situation.
Investigative journalism has a long history in America. Now that investigative journalism is developing in China, we would like to know how you establish your network of sources and judge the credibility of confidential sources?
That is a tough question. You have got to develop sources--people who believe there are things you should know that you can tell others in order to make changes. That's what investigation is. You often report about something that is wrong. There are people who might lose their jobs if they are identified. So you have to protect them and also be sure what they are telling you is factually true. It's really good if you can get some documents that will prove your case. And don't rely on a single person or one set of documents. You have to work a long time and get credibility. It is all very complicated, but you have to do it.
We know you and your father are the first father and son who have won the Pulitzer Prize. What is your response to winning it?
Well, of course I was proud about my father. The nice thing about it was when I won the Pulitzer Prize, it was the first time that it was given out in person. So I wore a big black tie that is very formal. There was a big dinner inviting all the Pulitzer winners, including my father, at a hotel in New York. The editor told me that I had won two days before. I was supposed to pledge secrecy. And I called my father up and said: "I will see you at the Pulitzer Prize dinner." He said: "I can't get you a ticket." I said: "No, I will see you there." "What do you mean? I can't get you a ticket.!" I said again: "I will see you there!" So he got very angry and said: "I can't do it!" So I said: "I will be there. I won!" "What do you mean, you won?" The great thing was when they introduced me and I went forward to get the prize, he stood up and cried. So that is what is nice about winning the award.
You never thought "I have to compete with my father," have you?
Oh, I guess I did. But the nice thing was that he was alive at that time. He was there to see my mother too. And that is just a moment I will never forget. I've got tears in my eyes now when I tell that story.
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